Here's my offer...
Here is my offer to resolve the most recent Gentoo leadership crisis, and is an offer I am making to the current Gentoo trustees, who are the ones who need to decide whether to accept or refuse it.
I have received permission from my employer to return and serve as President of the Gentoo Foundation, renew its charter, and then work in some capacity to help to get Gentoo going in the right direction from a legal, community and technical perspective.
I do have some conditions attached to this offer, however. First, I am going to ask that all currently-serving trustees assist in a quick transition, and if they accept my offer, they do so with the understanding that I will be appointing new trustees to the Foundation after the transition is complete.
In other words, if the current trustees accept this offer, they are basically handing the leadership of the Foundation over to me and the trustees that I will choose.
If I return as President, I will preserve the not-for-profit aspect of Gentoo. Beyond this, you can expect everything to be very, very different than how things are today. Here is a basic overview of the changes I will be making in how the Foundation operates, basically by refocusing on its core mission:
1) The Foundation will be responsible for the overall health of the Gentoo community and for pursuing the Foundation's mission of advancement and education and promotion of software development in an open environment.
2) The Foundation will be responsible for providing general guidance and direction for the project and for ensuring that the Gentoo project is moving in a positive direction and has proper leadership.
3) The Foundation will be responsible for ensuring that Gentoo developers, individual Gentoo users, external Gentoo-related projects and Gentoo-using organizations have a voice and the opportunity to influence the overall technical direction of the Gentoo project in a clear, open and organized way.
4) Legal paperwork will be filed properly and on-time and the Foundation will maintain a proper level of transparency with the community.
5) The Foundation will help the Gentoo community to be a positive and pleasant environment for all participants.
Please understand that if the trustees say "Yes", then I will be returning in a part-time capacity only. I will not be the hands-on Chief Architect as I was in the past. I am going to be focusing mainly on the Foundation side but will do a few key things here and there to get the project as a whole back on track.
Again, the trustees are the ones that get to decide whether or not to accept this offer.
If they say "no", then I will stay out, and let them try to resolve this situation on their own.
I also want to have some kind of answer to this offer soon. If the trustees want to pursue this transition plan, they need to let me know within the next 7 days - by Friday, January 18th, 2008 at the latest. If you want my help, I'd like to get things back on track soon. If you don't want me to take back the reigns of Gentoo, that is totally OK with me - just please let me know soon so I can focus on other things.
As always, you can post comments here, as well as emailing trustees@gentoo.org with your feedback.
In general, I don't like doing stuff like this publicly, but I think the Gentoo community deserves to know what's going on. The trustees also need to be accountable to the community to do what is in the best interests of the project - and to simply let people know what's going on.
89 comments:
I'm all for this. The direction of Gentoo lately seems to have all but disappeared. Devs are doing lots of work, but there's no road plan and basic things like the Gentoo front page are seriously out of date.
Good luck. I hope the trustees and council agree and also choose to help out and make things better for the entire Gentoo community.
Thanks Daniel,
it's about time.
Daniel Come back!! O_O
Trustees if you don't have a better offer, don't be stubborn and accept daniel's one!
Good plan. Make it so.
p
Good plan. Make it so.
p
I have been a Gentoo user since Gentoo began. I have seen it all from from the growth of the community to you leaving to fights amongst devs to ... well everything. I was kinda said to see the charter revoked. At first it was scary because I didn't know exactly what it meant, like could it mean a name change and a new charter to who knows what.
I do know from experience that fights and devs leaving is felt amongst the users of Gentoo Linux. I know I felt sad to see some really good devs leave because of "personal reasons with other devs". Though, the Gentoo community as a whole is great and it makes it past all the hardships to come out stronger.
One question is: how will disputes between devs be handled according to point number 3? Will the community ever learn of those disputes, or will they be presented to the community in a way that makes sense so we can fully understand why a certain dev leaves Gentoo rather than the talk and suspicion that we have now? Sometimes posts are made in blogs and on the forum itself that are rather negative about the other party in the dispute, so there is a lot of conflicting points and a lot of misinterpretation by users.
Another question: What is it that you will do differently to help promote the overall health of the community? I guess this is also a part of the previous question, but I write this in reference to point number 1.
You may have seen the forum thread here: http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-644321.html
Is there anything there that needs to be cleared up? I don't like idle speculation, so what would you say to those that are unsure?
Thanks,
Jon
That's a very generous offer Daniel. I know you tried to get back in once and decided it was too much of a hassle. I've been running Gentoo on my systems since late 2002 and have never looked back. But it is clear that there is no leadership in the Gentoo community at the moment and, as a result, things have been deteriorating rapidly in the last year. I hope the trustees accept your offer and you can turn things around. Gentoo is a truly unique linux distro and, thanks to you and the hard work of others, we users have benefited enormously.
Best Wishes,
Richard
I hope they will accept (thought it seems unlikely) and you will succeed. It might be difficult when done as a part-time thing, but hopefully doable.
Personally, I'm not engaged in Gentoo development, although I'm an avid user. I'm surprised how the internal problems are surfacing (I mean at gentoo.org, not this particular post) and I'm seriously concerned about the future of Gentoo (the best distribution ever, no doubt there).
I hope you get back in lead!
Otherwise your "baby" is going slowly die.
I'm vey close to wipe my Gentoo installions and get on the boring Ubunty train.....
I've been running Gentto since 2002.
/Claes
What happened to Gentoo joining this lot? That sounded like the perfect compromise. Gentoo devs could get on with the ebuilds and the SFLC would sort out the admin.
I know that there are other issues besides the apparently laid back approach to admin, but outsourcing the admin to the SFLC would be a start.
I would be thrilled if you did come back. On this very day when the new KDE was released--still needing lots of work before its ready for prime time--I'm very happy to hear about something whose time has come.
I hate to see Gentoo project in such a chaotic state. I think you're just the man we need right now.
Thank you, and I'll go back now to installing one of your Stage 3 tarballs.
Cool,
I hope they say "yes"!
As a committed Gentoo user, Thank You.
I'm not a trustee, but, I am more than willing to welcome you back - just my 2 cents that can't be spent anywhere and really mean nothing other than a brief opinion in the huge bucket of opinions
Hi Danial,
Gentoo really needs your drive and spirit to get things back in order. The deterioration of this excellent distribution is very sad. I truly hope you succeed, but what if they don't agree? what will you do then?
As a long time gentoo user I will email them to encourage giving you the leadership.
good luck!
finally!
I thought it was going to come to this eventually...
I am not a developer or even a prolific forum poster, but Gentoo was my first Linux way back in July 2004 and it's still my favorite distro. I have no doubt that this will be a good thing for Gentoo to have you back in a leadership position
But one thing still worries me: will YOU be okay? I've been following your blog and you seem so stressed over everything in life, not just Gentoo. Please don't damage yourself for the Gentoo project; the mismanagement is not your fault and your health has to come first.
Sounds great! Gentoo is an awesome distro but of late it is going the way of Debian. New releases, which are vital to install on new hardware are sorely missing.
Viva Gentoo!
Daniel, your offer is to be commended and reflects the dedication and hard work you have invested in the past and are prepared to offer in the future.
As a Gentoo user we often take for granted the hard work it takes to keep things on track and produce a quality product like Gentoo, but I hope that your offer is given serious consideration to ensure the work continues.
Keep up the good work
Anthony Godin
Daniel, there's a topic going on over at forums.gentoo.org, you problably might be interested to read:
http://forums.gentoo.org/
viewtopic-t-644321-postdays-0-
postorder-asc-start-0.html
You have a great employer, btw :)
Best wishes
Somebody gots to take back the ``reigns'' for sure (that would be you Robbins your Majesty). Gentoo could definitely use a king seems like. Gentoo is *dying*!! Long live Gentoo!
Daniel, that is great news! It sounds like you have a plan in mind, and currently, I think your energy and focus will do Gentoo a whole heap of good.
I just hope that the people involved are BIG enough to not let personal ego's ruin, what is one of the best Linux distros in my opinion,
Wishing you all the best with this,
Riaan
Hi Daniel,
Thank you for your offer to jump in and clean up. I think the trustees should welcome your offer. This is not about ego's, not about trust nor about individuals.
This is about saving one of the best linux (meta-) distributions out there!!
I wrote a small post on my blog about this to raise awareness on the net.
I, for one, would welcome you back immediately!
You get a resounding "YES" from me. I've been a gentoo user since 2003 and have watched the slow but sure decline over the last few years. Even with the slow spiral down, I *still* choose gentoo over any other distro, simply for the unparalleled help available on the forums. I've found every answer I've needed there when it comes to fixing what I break.
However, there have been numerous times that packages shouldn't have broken, ie; marked stable and I would run into blocks and dependency problems. For a mainline distro, this shouldn't be happening at all. I would assume that this is a communication issue, or possibly
Hope this gets resolved soon and I wish to see you at the helm again.
USE="daniel" emerge -avDN leadership
Thanks for being there for the gentoo community even after being pushed out when coming back.
Gentoo is a brilliant distribution and has one of the most open-minded and helpful community out there. Unfortunately the lack of leadership within the Gentoo Foundation and the lack of clear decisions regarding the future of Gentoo and a clear rodamap caused a lot of troubles among the community.
Gentoo needs a leader or at least an organisation giving clear directions and acting as a catalysator while representing the Community.
As the founder of Gentoo, and even if you only invest part-time in this task, I guess there is no one that can for the time being better embody Gentoo than you Daniel.
Thank you for offering again to serve the community and help rescue Gentoo. Let's hope the trustess will accept this helping hand.
Why not reboot the organization entirely? Gentoo serves a very real need, and it's useful. Serving this need (and promoting the fact that this need exists and Gentoo serves it) seems to have been lost in one of many political squabbles that come from poor management.
I see your offer and raise -- I'll take care of promotion, re-establish the non-profit charter and work as a communicator as President if you handle the Chief Architect role. I'm better at those things than you are, and you're far better at the tech side than I am.
Gentoo seems to be kind of dead. The last GWN is from october 2007.
Developers getting more arrogant, sometimes rude.
Much-needed things are getting very slowly into the portage tree (f.e. latest nvidia driver).
The promised 2007.1 release was not released. It seems that it will not happen for a while.
And then this, what you've described earlier this day.
Wouldn't it be easier to fork? Or, start "Gentoo" or whatever you might call it, from scratch (again)?
There are many gentoo users feeling more and more uncomfortable with gentoo, which is why many users tend to switch to f.e. freebsd or ubuntu or other distribution. On f.g.o discussion like "gentoo vs. xxxx" or "which distro"- kind of stuff, are poping up.
Gentoo is dead. (??)
Pleae give us the universal-cd back! Thanks for all and the coming, I hope ;-)
PWeber
I've always been a proponent of having a buck-stops-here-guy within Gentoo. Frankly, Gentoo started veering off course the moment that person no longer existed. Gentoo needs a benevolent dictator of sorts.
I served as the Lead Developer of Gentoo/amd64 from 2003 to 2005. During that time, I thoroughly enjoyed working with the developers on my team. However, any time a decision needed to be made outside of the sphere of influence I participated in (amd64, releng, infra), it was a nightmare. Instead of having an individual we could go to who had the authority to say "here's how it is", we had to deal with the ombudsman and devrel, both of which had their small amount of authority constantly undermined by developers who simply didn't care to listen. Even if that buck-stops-here-guy decided against a suggestion that I had I would be cool with it. At least a decision would be made, rather than allowing the problem to fester over time (which is a common occurrence in Gentoo today).
I would personally consider rejoining Gentoo as a developer if the structure Daniel proposes were implemented. Perhaps Daniel isn't the person Gentoo wants for this purpose (although his ability to start and run the Gentoo community proven by history), but the Foundation must give someone this authority if Gentoo intends to survive into the future.
Whooooohooo!!!!
Sorry, not very profound, but I'd love you see you back in the seat! I'm an avid Gentoo user. I love the distro, in I've thought for about 4 years now that with education into the community of what gentoo is, how it can be used, it's "THE" distro.
Just my 1/16 cent.
I really hope they take your advice. As someone who is trying to implement Gentoo in the enterprise environment, it is troubling to me to see it in the current state.
I am all for it.
I've been a long time gentoo user and gentoo is just too important as a distribution to see it fall apart.
I hope the foundation makes the right decision which is for the good of gentoo and it's community and not a few single individuals.
Daniel,
I have a request to make. Please take over whether you have a written nod from any remaining trustees. If you will read the thread going on this topic at the Gentoo forum, you will see that you are heavily supported by current users and members of the Gentoo community. The trustees didn't keep up with the paperwork to keep the status of the Foundation in proper order, right? Why would make any of us think they are competent enough to communicate with you on the question? These guys are used to letting critical issues slide. Please, please don't follow their directives (or "indirectives"?) What about saying that if you don't hear from them, you will take over? Can you do this? (IANAL and all that.)
As someone who uses Gentoo extensively in a production environment, I'm happy to see someone taking the initative on this.
Thanks.
If you don't get back what you rightfully started (Gentoo Linux, which kicks major ass), then why don't you just create something much better than Gentoo?
The gentoo forums are currently hosting a vote (and associated thread) on the offer.
I hope the current Gentoo Trustees take you up on your offer. For my purposes, gentoo is a great distribution, there is nothing else out there quite like it. I hate to see it drift into disarray, as it has been doing the last year or so.
I imagine it is more difficult for you, watching something you created and turned over to others, degrade to the point they can't even file paperwork, or update the homepage.
Thank you Daniel for letting me know of this. I was not aware that the Foundation has missed yet another required duty to make the community/distribution run. I just read this and I am upset because I wish I had seen this sooner. I wrote the trustees and support your proposal. I ask though, if the trustees cannot be reached (that last post mentioned only two seem to be active) what can be done? Does anyone have the active email addresses of the trustees. Perhaps a email campaign by the Gentoo users can help.
I would support your return. Right now, despite my undying love for Gentoo, the project seems to have lost momentum.
Yippee! This is very much needed for Gentoo. But please don't give up without a fight Mr. Robbins. Unless the current trustees are some enlightened zen masters, they will obviously respond negatively to such an ultimatum. Please don't let a "no" be the end of it.
Please come back an help.
Gentoo for me is the only Linux distribution out there that separates itself from the rest.
I hope the trustees make the decision and vote for your return.
Good luck with it Daniel. As a long time Gentoo user, I would love to see it brought back to its former glory.
Daniel could be the man who could put Gentoo back on track. I'm sure Gentoo is full of good developers. But being a good developer and programmer doesn't always (often?) mean that one would also be a good project leader or a good diplomat. Gentoo is a project big enough to need also leader personalities who are good not only in coding but also in diplomacy, personnel management, marketing etc. Every successful company or organization needs such staff.
Finally. I sincerely hope this is how Gentoo moves forward.
Otherwise I fear the prediction a co-worker made will come true: Gentoo is dead.
help gentoo please!!!!!
i love it too much to see it go down the drain.
Best luck to Daniel and Gentoo. I hope I can keep using Gentoo ...
As a gentoo user, i hope that Gentoo gets a bright new future! good luck
All things being equal this would be for the best.
Good Luck to you Daniel.
Daniel, I hope they take your offer. I think you could do much more good for gentoo. It hasn't been the same since you have been gone.
I think this is a great idea and I hope they give it to you.
Yes, indeed. Save Gentoo please. And fix the site design and forums if you have a chance...
Thank you!
I have been using Gentoo for only half a year, but I love it and do not want to see it go.
I don't know who these people are in the inner circle, but I have seen little positive contributions from them. An exception may be Donnie Berkholz, from which I've seen great things. I know he has high rank in the community, but I don't know if he is one of the troublemakers.
What I have seen:
Many smart, good developers leaving because someone in a decision making position can't keep their ego under control.
The GWN is not updated. Promises came and gone.
People submit fixes, not problems mind you, but fixes to the bugtracker and its takes months before they get incorporated into portage/the website if at all. In general there is an unnecessary divide between users v developers. This divide only makes the developers feel special; it is not helpful to the community.
There was no release in the fall.
Daniel, I remember your offer 5 months ago. Back then there was a backlash where our comrades did not want you taking power from 'the community.' But it was clear that 'the community' was a bunch in Stalingrad that did not to loose their position. Fine, but they had their chance and Gentoo is falling apart. Open source should gravitate towards a meritocracy. You founded Gentoo. Thank you. You have the right to sit a benevolent dictator. Please take it.
It is a superior distribution, and there are a lot of people that will work to keep it going and bring it to new heights.
Please come we need you Daniel.
This is not the same without you.
Gentoo is loosing share at high speed and also loosing caracter.
Mr. Robbins,
If this doesn't work out, I still think you should consider creating a distribution based on portage. I've been "very" disappointed in the state of gentoo, the web site, and the forums as they all seem to be on "idle". Gentoo has been the best distribution for my needs and would like to see it continue. Considering during your tenure, it became a leading distribution and was consistantly named in the top 10 distribution and growing consistantly. Since your departure, there have been some advances. The releases have been slowing and the GUI installer was too buggy to even been released. I can't stant the fact that within 2 to 4 years, if gentoo isn't reorginized and back on track, I'll have to be looking for another distribution.
I really feel if the Gentoo Foundation does not agree to your proposal, you need to create another distribution. I think you will get alot of followers who have been as dismayed at the state of Gentoo as I have been.
Thanks for all of what you have done and what Gentoo "had" become while you were the "main" guy. I hope to see what you can accomplish in the future.
I love gentoo, been using it for years, and sadly I have seen it slip further and further away from what it used to be. Your input is sorely needed.
And let me finish by saving thank you, for all the work and love that you have put into this project.
Great news, I hope they accept. Was a terrible loss when you first left the project, would be great to get you back!
All I can say is that we (gentoo-based distro maintainers) should deserve a little bit more attention.
Congratulation you're a men of great courage. I Hope you will succeed in rescuing Gentoo Linux ! You have the support of the community :
http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-644321-start-275-postdays-0-postorder-asc-highlight-.html
Sweet.
I hope that Gentoo's problems are solved. That was the next Distro I wanted to try next. Using Linux for almost four years I wanted to move up to the next level of knowledge. Gentoo has a reputation of being more technical than other Distros but with good documentation and a strong community to learn form. GNU/Linux would be worst off without this distro. I have found many answers to my computing problems from documentation for Gentoo. Thank you Gentoo Community.
well, i hope that either they accept your offer or decide to do something on the matter, or else gentoo will end up badly.
Daniel, hope you can be back and put Gentoo back on track.
i hope they say yes
I'm behind you buddy! Gentoo was my first and favorite distro. I've since e-mailed the trustees and BCC'd you on it voicing my support for your offer. I hope they see the bigger picture and take you up on this one!
I support your offer and hope it is accepted. I believe you have the vision and dedication to make this happen... And since you are still listed as the foundation President...
Hope they do the right thing and bring you back.
Thx Daniel for offering this. You have my support!
Thx Daniel for offering this. You have my support also!
Also, there's are a lot of Gentoo Threads inside the forum.gentoo about you my friend.
I hope that they will say yes to you :)
Good Luck :)
USE="daniel" emerge --deep --update --newuse gentoo
bravo, friend.
please Daniel save Gentoo!!!
it's my favourite distro... it's one of my "best friend" :)
really good luck!
You go girl!
I, for one, hope the Foundation accepts your offer. I've been using Gentoo for too long. It would be a shame to see such a unique distro fall to the wayside because of egos.
I think what people interests most right now is how you want to change the direction of gentoo. What are your plans (an overview would be nice)?
The users are excited about the prospect of someone taking the responsibility and making long needed decisions, but the devs are concerned about how their work will be influenced and view your proposal a lot more critically.
So if this turns out to be a community driven decision it would be a pity if it woult result in an exodus of devs.
Maybe a little overview about your plans could calm the worries of the concerned and critical voices.
daniel it's really sad to see that even if you have a great support from the community the insiders struggling to keep the current state.
If you have a more evil plan (whatever is), i believe current users and ex developers will follow and help you as much as they can!!! =D
Thanks Daniel,
I support this too. I am a former user of Gentoo. While I was using it I learned alot about Linux, but i don't have that much time to maintain it any more. Sometimes it was pain full to maintain it and some things randomly broke at updates. Still, I think it is a brilliant thing. Also Gentoo wiki is a very good source for help. If I'd have a chance I'd switch back gladly. I hope this work out!
regards, DAniel
The most people want that you come back and fix the problems. I think the trustees should accept these offer.
Hi Daniel,
I think it would be helpful if you could talk more about your plans and what you would do if you came back to Gentoo.
There is a lot of fear and distrust on the part of the devs, and that fear would be much alleviated if you gave more information about what you would like to happen.
For starters, what organizational structure would you like?
What would your position and responsibilities be?
What would be the checks and balances on your powers?
Lastly, more than 90% of the users supported your return, but as one of those who voted for your return, the above questions would have to be answered before I would reasonably expect the devs to seriously consider your return.
If the devs reject your offer after you give this information, and if they don't explain their decision well enough to the community, would you consider a fork? Many of the users, myself included (if the devs don't explain themselves and indicate that very serious changes are underway), would leave with you.
Have you investigated joining Sabayon and recommending that as the destination distro if there is a mass exodus?
Thanks for your thoughts.
Tnx Daniel,
Gentoo was the first distro I installed on my personnal computer. I hope you'll get to make everything work the right way...
Good Luck and thanks again
this is like going to mordor and returning back home....
Hi, I saw that tonight :
http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-nfp/msg_01347.xml
I wrote my message 2008-01-18 at 22:50 pm.
I'm with you, I really like point 3 of your post.
And, after all, I desperately need Gentoo (on which I based the bioinformatics platform here)!
For me the goal is to have a better technical direction. If Daniel Robbins comes with it , then welcome!
A better direction is probably needed, as some things are lagging behind (we don't even have a masked perl 5.10.0 in portage!).
@djamanda
There's an ebuild for perl5.10 on bugzilla.
http://bugs.gentoo.org/
show_bug.cgi?id=206455
Test it and submit your comments on the ebuild. This will help the ebuild make it to the tree that much quicker.
Please for the sake of the passionate gentoo community come back and move this distro forward.
Your ideas of transparency are much needed.
That's a very generous offer Daniel. I know you tried to get back in once and decided it was too much of a hassle. I've been running Gentoo on my systems since late 2002 and have never looked back. But it is clear that there is no leadership in the Gentoo community at the moment and, as a result, things have been deteriorating rapidly in the last year. I hope the trustees accept your offer and you can turn things around. Gentoo is a truly unique linux distro and, thanks to you and the hard work of others, we users have benefited enormously.
Leo F. Swiontek
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